Curse

LicensedLuny · Feb 07, 2012, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Took lots of pictures the past several days, mostly while doing CNY quests on all my characters (or running characters from alt accounts to LA.) I've been opening the chests for lucky/unlucky points as well as new entries. When possible from the screenshot, I tried to include info on what dropped the stuff in case anyone cares.

r6 Sword 8-10
r2 Sword 7-10

r7 Axe 6-14
r6 Axe 5-11
r3 Axe 5-12
r1 Axe 5-11

r7 Hammer 12-18
r4 Hammer 15-24
r1 Hammer 11-15

r5 Bow 9-13
r4 Bow 9-13
r3 Bow 9-14

r6 Daggers 5-10
r5 Daggers 4-7
r4 Daggers 4-8
r0 Daggers 1-3 (both in blue and in white)

r5 Spear 7-10
r3 Spear 9-15

r5 Scythe 7-15

r7 Shield 10ar
r6 Shield 9ar
r3 Shield 8ar

r9 blue staff 15/9/10-17
r6 purple staff 12/6/8-12
r6 white staff 12/6/7-11
r5 purple staff 15/7/8-13
r4 purple staff 12/6/8-12
r4 white staff 12/6/7-11
r3 white staff 13/7/8-14
r3 white staff 13/6/8-13
r0 purple staffs:
- 11/6/6-9
- 12/5/5-8
r0 blue staff 12/5/7-10
r0 white staff 12/5/7-11
r0 blue staff 10/3/4-6

r7 wand 8-13
r4 wand 7-10
r3 wand 7-11

r6 focus 9en, and drops in gold
r4 focus 7en

I will try to go through replies and get the OP updated appropriately in the next couple days.

EDIT - Feb. 10 - Additions from the past two days' adventures.

r13 gold axe dropped

r7 hammer 13-21

r10 gold shield dropped
r3 10ar shield

r11 staff, white, 17/10/10-19
r10 staff, white 17/10/11-22 (max for white/blue?)
r10 staff, purple 17/9/11-20
r8 staff, white 14/8/8-14

r11 gold wand dropped
r8 wand 9-14

fallenangel · Feb 07, 2012, 12:49 PM // 12:49

(Reporting here after discussing with Luny ingame.

)

Just got a blue Bo Staff with HSR 18% about 30 mins ago. We were both under the impression that the HSR for white and blue staffs was capped at 17%.

Luny thought it might be worth pointing out (for science, of course) that the drop happened shortly after completion of server maintenance on Feb. 7. *cue X-Files music*

If anyone *coughYawgcough* is interested in having a look at the staff, it is now in Luny's care. (Note to Luny: it's on the moon!)

Edit:
Additional info, in case it matters: staff was dropped by a Sickened Guard at Minister Cho's Estate - a level 23 foe in Hard Mode.

Yawgmoth · Feb 07, 2012, 07:02 PM // 19:02

:O :O :O
That staff changes a lot, maybe even completely break the theory on how hard stat caps work in this game (may be relevant in finally explaining why things like 7-xx axes or 10-xx scythes drop for example).

Keep it, it may be one of a kind. If it's still unidentified DON'T identify it!
Please check and post the merchant value of it while still unidentified (value after identification is practically irrelevant)

BIG thanks for all the additional info - that it has just dropped today (could the update change anything? seems very very improbable but ...) and it is very important that the drop was from a level 23 foe - I have already observed some minor anomalies in drops from level 23 but haven't put enough time to research them completely.

LicensedLuny · Feb 07, 2012, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

:O :O :O
That staff changes a lot, maybe even completely break the theory on how hard stat caps work in this game (may be relevant in finally explaining why things like 7-xx axes or 10-xx scythes drop for example).

Keep it, it may be one of a kind. If it's still unidentified DON'T identify it!
Please check and post the merchant value of it while still unidentified (value after identification is practically irrelevant)

BIG thanks for all the additional info - that it has just dropped today (could the update change anything? seems very very improbable but ...) and it is very important that the drop was from a level 23 foe - I have already observed some minor anomalies in drops from level 23 but haven't put enough time to research them completely.

I did ID it after taking my own screenshots of it in the trade window unidentified. I'm sorry - I should've thought to check the merch value before ID, but it didn't even occur to me. Here are my "before and after" shots of that staff, which as fallen mentioned, he left in my keeping.

He deserves +1 internet point for the effort he put into documenting this. I nagged him into that effort, claiming more info is better than less info if you're about to disprove one of Yawg's loot theories!

It was Nov. 2010 when I posted the question on this thread asking if max 20/10/11-22 staffs dropped in all colors and Yawg replied, explaining about the 17hsr cap for white and blue staffs. I've had mention of that in the OP here since then, and I keep a lookout for new records when I get loot. I can't say for sure that I never saw a white or blue loot-drop staff with over 17HSR before Nov. 2010. I'm confident saying I never saw one drop after, though. Clearly, they can drop now, but it's either something new or something extremely rare ... otherwise, I think we'd have seen or heard about one before now. I'm not the only one who watches the records on this thread and keeps an eye out for new limits.

Red Fireball · Feb 12, 2012, 12:31 AM // 00:31

I´ve done some research and talked to other collectors ingame, and well... Firefighter Fred had gold q3 daggers. I found this screen in this post on this thread. Thus I´m halfway convinced to q3 still dropping in gold (I´d expect them to drop from lvl 11-14 mobs, as lvl 10 won´t drop gold and lvl 15 won´t drop q3).
Well, I´m not sure if daggers were recent drop, still it is a clue... let´s keep looking for those and possibly someone wants to have some fun farming mobs lvl 11-14 and bring screens

.

The Mountain · Feb 12, 2012, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Here's another blue staff with 18% HSR.
I also included a picture at the merchant while it was unidentified.

gw003_crop.jpg

Every other piece of information was the same as fallenangel posted, except of course the date, which was today.

LicensedLuny · Feb 12, 2012, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Last update: post 410, page 21, Jan. 23, 2012.
This update: post 426, page 22, Feb. 12, 2012.

The compare post version feature won't work for the OP anymore. (I broke Guru?) After updating the OP last time, I tried to compile a change log by hand ... that took ages. Considering that the point of the change log was to help check for errors or typos I made, I'm not sure what good a handmade change log will be either.

Major changes:

- I tried to go back through all the posts in this thread from the beginning and enter any existing records for min stat white/blue staffs and "still drops in gold?" confirmations from replies posted before I was trying to keep track of those specifics in the OP.

- fallenangel's (and now The Mountain's) curious new blue staffs with 18HSR are an interesting development. (You disproved one of Yawg's loot theories, guys ... it's making me nervous!) So, let's all keep a close eye on white and blue staffs ... and seems like just about any loot from level 23 foes maybe?

Minor changes:

- updated the lists with any new records posted.

Thanks for all the reports! Keep 'em coming!

Kiki Go Boom · Feb 13, 2012, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Hi, got this bow recently. Q2 8-12

Yawgmoth · Feb 15, 2012, 02:18 AM // 02:18

That 18% staff motivated me to do extensive research and I'm now closer than ever to formulating the ultimate theory on GW drop generation system.

I'm now certain about WHY was it even possible (but I don't want to explain it until I finalize the entire theory, sorry for being cryptic about it). I can only say there's NO hardcoded cap on white/blue staffs' HSR (except obviously the hard cap for all staffs). Yes, this means the generation algoritms could produce even 19% or 20% HSR on a white staff, BUT there may be nothing in the game capable of dropping it.

I can also add that the fact 18% HSR white/blue staves are possible has NO relation to the reasons 7-xx axes or 10-xx scythes. Something completely different is responsible for those and the completed research on staves didn't bring me closer to finally explaining those.

Oh, and I also happened to get this one drop for me today:

nice it also happens to have perfect +10E and 11-22dmg so it's the highest stat white in existence

The Mountain · Feb 15, 2012, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Oh, and I also happened to get this one drop for me today:
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/7...whitestaff.jpg
nice it also happens to have perfect +10E and 11-22dmg so it's the highest stat white in existence

Unless I identify mine and salv off the mod

LicensedLuny · Feb 15, 2012, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

... Keep it, it may be one of a kind. ...

Um, may I merch it now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

That 18% staff motivated me to do extensive research and I'm now closer than ever to formulating the ultimate theory on GW drop generation system.

I'm now certain about WHY was it even possible (but I don't want to explain it until I finalize the entire theory, sorry for being cryptic about it). I can only say there's NO hardcoded cap on white/blue staffs' HSR (except obviously the hard cap for all staffs). Yes, this means the generation algoritms could produce even 19% or 20% HSR on a white staff, BUT there may be nothing in the game capable of dropping it.

I can also add that the fact 18% HSR white/blue staves are possible has NO relation to the reasons 7-xx axes or 10-xx scythes. Something completely different is responsible for those and the completed research on staves didn't bring me closer to finally explaining those.

While I'm still a little concerned about this breaking my comfy "Yawg knows all the answers - we'll just ask him!" concept, I can't help but smile at the idea that this has inspired you to come back to GW for more "extensive research." I'm really looking forward to reading the finalized theory!!!

+1 internet points to fallen, Mountain and Yawg for the curious fun!

EDIT - Question to all the folks who care about this thread
Should we start trying to keep track of max and min stats by color, not just by requirement level, too? I'm already sort of doing that for staffs.

I know Fred is interested in that. I think Red might also be. Is there reason to think there may be a difference between, say, the min damage we could see on a gold r11 axe vs. the min we could see on a white r11 axe? Would the added details/length to the OP make it harder to read, less useful to you?

Bright Star Shine · Feb 15, 2012, 01:05 PM // 13:05

I think it's a good idea to put stat ranges by color as well, but the only thing that would stop me from asking for it is because it will be such a big amount of trouble for you to keep up with... Do it if you think you can handle it, if you can't, I'm not asking you to^^

Yawgmoth · Feb 15, 2012, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mountain

Unless I identify mine and salv off the mod

omg, I must have completely missed your post with your staff, If I'd have seen it I'd have no reason to post mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LicensedLuny

Um, may I merch it now?

Yes, and I will likely merch mine aswell.
It appears they're not even very rare - I can now roughly estimate that at least 0.5% but no more than 2% of white or blue staves drops from level 22 or 23 mobs will have 18% HSR.
Foes of level 24 and higher almost certainly aren't able to drop them - but in theory there might be an ultra slim chance for them to do so, just like in theory there might be an ultra slim chance for a max req.8 axe drop.

Unfortunately I'm not good at estimating the demand side of the market. There are some rarity collectors who collect things that 99% would insta merch, so I wonder how good would one of the 18% staves have to be to be a worthy collectible.

18/10/11-22 is the best stats we can hope for on a white/blue (unless we find a strange special drop source in the style of the old unlocked chests and barrels of 2005 Prophecies) so what would it need to have?

(1) perf base 18/10/11-22 is enough to be keepworthy ?
(2) or maybe Req.9 only ? (don't hope for req.8, it's not possible)
(3) inherent 7/10 HCT all spells ?
(4) inherent 15% HCT matching req ?

A (1)+(2)+(4) - that is 18/10/11-22 req9 with a matching 15%HCT woukd be super hard to get but is there demand for this kind of item?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LicensedLuny

EDIT - Question to all the folks who care about this thread
Should we start trying to keep track of max and min stats by color, not just by requirement level, too? I'm already sort of doing that for staffs.

I know Fred is interested in that. I think Red might also be. Is there reason to think there may be a difference between, say, the min damage we could see on a gold r11 axe vs. the min we could see on a white r11 axe? Would the added details/length to the OP make it harder to read, less useful to you?

Personally I rarely use the list on the main page but I believe more info is better as long as it's not duplicating irrelevant things. Color differences can be interesting but in most cases (almost all except some exceptions) there are no differences in possible stat/req combinations for common/grape/gold drops. Many fields could well be filled without the need for proof, especially what drops in which color. Any weapon class can drop in gold in any req from 5 to 13, guaranteed. I'm almost sure req.4s as well so we just need to find all the req.3 ones basically.

***

A small request to all farmers out there - we need to confirm the lowest level of a foe that can drop gold items.
It's more important than anything when it comes to filling a lot of spots on our table.
Status:
Level 13 -- confirmed by theory (a few golds posted in this had to be dropped from something below lvl 14)
Level 12 ??? -- I think it should but I've never got one
Level 11 -- most likely not.

***

End · Feb 16, 2012, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Req. 11 Axe: (Still drops in gold-text?)

Max Stats: 6-28 (Known limit)
Min Stats: 5-24 (pic from LicensedLuny)

hooked axe
r11
5-23

That appears to be lower by 1

Tyvm luny for the help with my ss issues

Also, is it worth noting that the flute you can buy from the merch in pre is a focus that gives +1 energy?

Robdalf · Feb 16, 2012, 04:51 AM // 04:51

New low R10 sword. Dropped either doing NM WoC quest or Falken Courier.

Bright Star Shine · Feb 16, 2012, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

A small request to all farmers out there - we need to confirm the lowest level of a foe that can drop gold items.
It's more important than anything when it comes to filling a lot of spots on our table.
Status:
Level 13 -- confirmed by theory (a few golds posted in this had to be dropped from something below lvl 14)
Level 12 ??? -- I think it should but I've never got one
Level 11 -- most likely not.

Level 12 can drop golds, I've seen it. Try feather farming Jaya Bluffs in NM. I used to do that like 2 years ago to make some cash and got quite a couple of golden Kamas and Sunqua Blades (low reqs) from lvl12 Sensali. It shouldn't take you more than an hour of farming the pesky birds to get something.

The Mountain · Feb 16, 2012, 06:40 PM // 18:40

If an enemy can drop a purple, can they also drop gold?

The reason I'm asking:

I wanted to test some lvl 11, so I farmed about 100 icy humps in Griffon's Mouth. Not one of those buggers dropped a purple or a gold. I randomly killed one of the bosses (lvl 12) and got a gold. That made me question if a lvl 11 boss might drop a gold. So I headed east into Deld. Bowl and farmed the lvl 11 bosses. So far I have not had a gold, but a purple did drop just now.

LicensedLuny · Feb 16, 2012, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

A small request to all farmers out there - we need to confirm the lowest level of a foe that can drop gold items.
It's more important than anything when it comes to filling a lot of spots on our table.
Status:
Level 13 -- confirmed by theory (a few golds posted in this had to be dropped from something below lvl 14)
Level 12 ??? -- I think it should but I've never got one
Level 11 -- most likely not.

***

I know some of the stuff I track in the OP (past and present) doesn't interest you. Are there specific things you'd like to see tracked/included in the OP that aren't there now? I'm open to format suggestions, especially if it helps further the GW-loot chapter of The Theory of Everything!

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mountain

If an enemy can drop a purple, can they also drop gold?

The reason I'm asking:

I wanted to test some lvl 11, so I farmed about 100 icy humps in Griffon's Mouth. Not one of those buggers dropped a purple or a gold. I randomly killed one of the bosses (lvl 12) and got a gold. That made me question if a lvl 11 boss might drop a gold. So I headed east into Deld. Bowl and farmed the lvl 11 bosses. So far I have not had a gold, but a purple did drop just now.

I don't think so. I got an r0 purple spear as recently as last December from something in Istan (I think it was an Istani Chest, not sure though.) From reading/chatting with other folks, it sounds quite plausible that r0 gold loot doesn't drop at all anymore.

PS - You should farm Hardened Humps instead. They're way better! All the cool kids are doing it now.

Yawgmoth · Feb 16, 2012, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

Level 12 can drop golds, I've seen it. Try feather farming Jaya Bluffs in NM. I used to do that like 2 years ago to make some cash and got quite a couple of golden Kamas and Sunqua Blades (low reqs) from lvl12 Sensali. It shouldn't take you more than an hour of farming the pesky birds to get something.

Before posting this request I actually did 7 runs of those, got 10 purples but 0 golds (except one from a lv14 yeti). Just my luck.

I just got a message from a friendly member of this forum who says he got a gold drop from a level 11. So I guess it's time to focus on them, let's find a location with the most level 11s and begin the holocaust

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mountain

If an enemy can drop a purple, can they also drop gold?

The reason I'm asking:

I wanted to test some lvl 11, so I farmed about 100 icy humps in Griffon's Mouth. Not one of those buggers dropped a purple or a gold. I randomly killed one of the bosses (lvl 12) and got a gold. That made me question if a lvl 11 boss might drop a gold. So I headed east into Deld. Bowl and farmed the lvl 11 bosses. So far I have not had a gold, but a purple did drop just now.

Purples can drop from mobs as low as level 8 (100% confirmed) and possibly level 7 too. Golds certainly need higher
Bosses are known to have better droprates for purple and gold items, and observations over the years definitely confirm this, but I can't say for sure it's not just because a boss drops multiple items where a normal foe drops just one (except a few special exceptions rolled separately).

Anyway, having the boss status certainly won't make a monster able to drop golds (or purples) if a normal monster of the same level cannot.

The Mountain · Feb 16, 2012, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

So I guess it's time to focus on them, let's find a location with the most level 11s and begin the holocaust

Those Ettins in Griffon's Mouth are a solid option, I think. Easy to ball em up and nuke b/c they are melee with no rupting attacks. Also, you can just zone back and forth into the zone from those adjacent and not lose any running time since the whole zone consists of them. Just note that the two bosses are lvl 12s. However, they have significantly higher HP, so no worries about mistaking a boss drop as one from the normal mobs.